Chuck D For President
*Originally published for The Guardian right before the election. Here is the interview, this time, in full.
Chuck D’s voice remains one of the most powerful in all of recorded music. That’s how he’s been able to deliver profound messages over the most booming of Bomb Squad’s production. As both chief officer and lead vocal instrument of PE, Chuck’s provocative, punchy rhymes are now fully realized statements that are all too true, all still dealing and reeling with themes of struggle, race, agency, and imbalanced power structures. Almost 30 years since debuting Yo! Bum Rush The Show, PE’s anthemic songs continually loom large, remaining ‘sooooooophisticated’ above the rest, even now.
The reason for their relevance (besides PE’s unmatched sonic texture) is because Chuck’s words continue to age wisely by the year and still resonate today. A few weeks prior to this interview, PE played oversees, and according to Chuck: “We performed in Manchester in front of 60,000 people each night.”
It’s important to check in with Chuck because he’s built a career on telling truths, often loudly, in a profession littered with empty proclamations. These days he’s moved beyond music and is a cultural figure — his writings, his speeches, his art shows, his university lecture series, all of which are more avenues for him to not pull punches.
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. And politics right now is insane,” he says. With that in mind, ahead of busy tours, and auspicious election cycles, I spoke with Chuck on classic PE material, current matters of the state, his frustrations, his observations, Obama, and the current political landscape.
*Raises fist* Chuck D for president.
Why do you think songs like “Fight the Power” or “911’s A Joke” still resonate nowadays?
Our music might be 20 or 30 years old, but in life that amount of time isn’t that long. I don’t really make personal statements. When I said ‘fight the power’ my influences are about the we, not the me. So people say that stuff I’ve said is still relevant today and I’m glad. But I say, yeah, well it’s still around and will always be around because I didn’t make it up. I was able to write a song that gave narrative to things but I didn’t invent the sentiment or own the slogan.
The political climate’s getting more and more heated with the election coming up. Did you watch the recent Republican and Democratic conventions?
How could you not watch the conventions? Trump’s appetite for everything is so apparent and he’s getting towards his goal. We have half of the United States thinking he’s going to save them and protect them. And they’re essentially voting for a coup. If you perceive a king or dictator as being better than a democratically elected president, then you’re voting for a coup. You want a military dictatorship because you think it can better protect you.
Talk about Trump.
It’s not so much him or even the audacity of Trump — he’s just a businessman. And as a businessman, he will fight democracy and government, not fight for it. I think after he wins, he’ll sit and enjoy feeling his power for a while and being the businessman that he is, he’ll just go for bigger deals internationally that’ll serve him. I believe his intent is to take over the military. He’ll also work for the prison industrial complex and all its materialistic power structures will thrive with little opposition.
Is Trump’s success just a sign of wider racial divides, especially with all the current police shootings? Or is something else structurally impacting how police do their jobs?
I think, and this is the first time I’ve really talked about this, is that policing in the US has been so bad because of state laws. These states have the nerve to make it all about them and no one can tell them what to do. So there’s a huge detachment with these states acting and functioning as a state within other states. The other thing that makes policing so lopsided is that counties have their own policing and jurisdiction and they’re not compliant or united. They’re ran on ego and their own sort of fiefdom. And states are made of many, many counties. Say you’re driving across county lines, each and every county has different systems in place as to how they’re gonna deal with you. Policing is evidently not working in the 21st century United States.
Touch on Black Lives Matter and your thoughts on the movement.
It’s a defensive movement. It’s just saying, ‘Hey, you need to treat us like people and that we’re not going to tolerate being slaughtered like pigs or sheep.’ The whole thing that thinking that BLM is an offensive movement is wrong. All lives matter, true, but if we don’t treat all lives equally then no lives matter.
We touched on Republicans, let’s go over the Democratic convention. What did you think of the First Lady, Michelle.
On my label I have an all woman group called Crew Grrl Order and we made videos about Michelle around 2009 and it says it all. I don’t think anyone ever did a song about the first lady. I’m certainly a fan. Matter of fact, it brings us into the hip-hop narrative too — people always ask me what is different about hip-hop today and I always say there are much less groups and far too few women involved. And I just don’t mean women rappers but I mean women being involved in the mechanics of the music as well as the business.
How do you think President Obama’s came off? How do you think he’ll be remembered?
It was stellar. He’s the first president to come out and say that a lot of people around him are just talking heads. And when you say ‘how he’ll be remembered’ the media will be making that judgment call. So the question really is, what is media? Will it be a small group of guys controlling Obama’s narrative? I think Obama is the best we ever had, best that ever did it, but worse is on the horizon. I’m hoping it’s just worse on the horizon, not the worst. Worst being Trump.
How will you personally remember President Obama?
Besides my inner most beliefs on what government does, I truly believe he battled with the government. As a black man in the United States and its history, I expect nothing from the government [laughs]. But Obama’s also had to endure such and onslaught of direct hatred from the system. He’s also been so ostracized. I remember 8 years of George Bush when everyone was scrambling. I just think Obama really tried to do the right thing.
How did he strike you 8 years ago when he was first elected?
I always thought Obama would’ve been the perfect running mate for Hillary back in 2008 because I thought she was going to win. I didn’t think America was ready for a black president then. And I’m right — it’s 8 years later and people still aren’t ready for a black president [laughs]. But that was the first time my daughter was of voting age. So myself, my daughter, and my father all voted together. All 3 generations went to the polls together and voted for a black president. It was a pretty significant moment for us.
What’d you think of Bernie Sanders and his campaign?
Bernie said things that people wanted to hear. I thought what Bernie did with one of my peers, Killer Mike, was also amazing. All the awareness and everything Bernie did was great. But my main disappointment is that this Coke and Pepsi ran country has made elections this eenie-meenie-miney-mo sort of thing. It’s a game of mathematics and having to choose the lesser of two.
I’ve always wondered why the vice president doesn’t have more power, like some real actual power. Why did Hillary choose Kaine and not make Bernie her running mate? Well the answer is because Hilary is backed by wealthy investors. So, even as we speak now and even with Bernie’s efforts, we’re right back at fucking square one.
What do you think the single biggest obstacle for the next president will be?
Getting attention. Attention is currency and you have to pay attention to details. And I think millennials have all been fragmented due to their devices. These kids are more connected to each other than ever before — that’s actually a good thing I think. But the negative is that they don’t get the humanity and real feelings when you touch another human being or sit face-to-face with someone. The gadget is just the intermediary but it will become your guide if you’re not careful. And then, if you’re really not careful, your guide ends up becoming your god.
Even though this is certainly a youth oriented culture, it hasn’t just impacted kids. Seems like it’s a lot of people.
Absolutely. I’ve never seen so many 40-year-old teenagers in my life [laughs]. You can be youthful and full of youth, but don’t be a fool for youth. And this society tries to make you hang onto your youth by any means necessary. But in doing so you forgo responsibilities and accountabilities of what makes you an elder. There’s no narrative for US citizens to understand the quality of aging gracefully.
Look at all these politicians — they’re all trying to get their ‘young’ on and it all feels like high school shit. This Republican Convention was a straight up high school prep rally. And the Democratic convention was just show-time. What does that show a 16-year-old? How do they take it? All you have is this glamour and glitz fake show from the left; and on the right, it’s a hate rally.
